Discussion:
OpenSolaris, Sun Blade 1000 and new disks...
Paul Duncan
2007-08-10 09:24:29 UTC
Permalink
Hello,

Currently run Solaris 10 at work (on research ships), but I'm interested in OpenSolaris, so I've ordered the starter pack DVDs and also got a Sun Blade 1000 off eBay to try it on. Its quite an old system, so I'm just wondering if there are any others here using Sun Blade 1000 systems?

Also, it comes with quite a small (by modern standards) fibre channel hard drive. Is there any problem with swapping this for one of Seagate's newer fibre channel drives?

Thanks!

Paul,
Mid-Atlantic Ridge.


This message posted from opensolaris.org
Richard L. Hamilton
2007-08-10 10:06:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul Duncan
Hello,
Currently run Solaris 10 at work (on research ships),
but I'm interested in OpenSolaris, so I've ordered
the starter pack DVDs and also got a Sun Blade 1000
off eBay to try it on. Its quite an old system, so
I'm just wondering if there are any others here using
Sun Blade 1000 systems?
Also, it comes with quite a small (by modern
standards) fibre channel hard drive. Is there any
problem with swapping this for one of Seagate's newer
fibre channel drives?
I've got a 2000, which is almost identical (the PROM identifies
it as a 1000).

I replaced the drives in mine, one at a time, with larger drives
(used). What I didn't know is that the larger drives, although used
lightly from their SMART hours powered on, had been pulled
from a NetApp. The custom NetApp firmware I wasn't crazy about,
although it hasn't been a problem. What was a nuisance was
the nonstandard sector size. The only answer to that was to
low-level reformat them using Jörg's "sformat". Until that was
done, they were utterly unusable.

I do wish I could find a big cheap FC JBOD to hook up to that HSSDC
connector on the back...but I'm starting to think that something new,
hooked up via FireWire or USB 2.0, would cost less than a used FC JBOD
and have about twice the storage space. Unfortunately last I asked, there
was no support for FireWire 800 (i.e. for it on any chipset in an add-on card,
since the onboard is strictly 400), and even trying to use disks over
FireWire 400 hasn't worked well for me, and I've also seen from others
more problems than praise on that. But USB 2.0 (or for that matter
FireWire 400) are a bit on the slow side for disks; tolerable for brief
use with a portable drive, not so much with a non-portable JBOD.


This message posted from opensolaris.org
_______________________________________________
opensolaris-discuss mailing
Paul Duncan
2007-08-10 12:50:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Richard L. Hamilton
I replaced the drives in mine, one at a time, with
larger drives
(used). What I didn't know is that the larger
drives, although used
lightly from their SMART hours powered on, had been
pulled
from a NetApp. The custom NetApp firmware I wasn't
crazy about,
although it hasn't been a problem. What was a
nuisance was
the nonstandard sector size. The only answer to that
was to
low-level reformat them using Jörg's "sformat".
Until that was
one, they were utterly unusable.
Okay, well I've seen some used ones on eBay, and a new 146GB (very strange size) Seagate for 180 quid, which does seem rather expensive for a drive of that size, but I might get one anyway.
Post by Richard L. Hamilton
I do wish I could find a big cheap FC JBOD to hook up
to that HSSDC
I am totally unfamiliar with fibre channel technology and terminology, but I guess its just an external fibre channel enclosure.
Post by Richard L. Hamilton
connector on the back...but I'm starting to think
that something new,
hooked up via FireWire or USB 2.0, would cost less
than a used FC JBOD
and have about twice the storage space.
Okay, but am I right in thinking the system only has USB1.1?
Post by Richard L. Hamilton
Unfortunately last I asked, there
as no support for FireWire 800 (i.e. for it on any
chipset in an add-on card,
since the onboard is strictly 400), and even trying
to use disks over
FireWire 400 hasn't worked well for me, and I've also
seen from others
more problems than praise on that. But USB 2.0 (or
for that matter
FireWire 400) are a bit on the slow side for disks;
tolerable for brief
use with a portable drive, not so much with a
non-portable JBOD.
Well, I do have one 400GB external firewire - currently in use as a backup drive for a Linux server, so once I manage to shift the data onto something else, I guess I could use that.

I wonder if its possible to use a PCI sata card in there...

Regards,

Paul
~~~~


This message posted from opensolaris.org
Martin Bochnig
2007-08-10 14:40:57 UTC
Permalink
Introduction:

To start with, "newer" doesn't necessarily mean "better".
The sb1k/sb2k is one of the most capable and reliable workstations ever
built.
And when exclusively considering SPARC Desktops it may be *the* best.
It's fireplane interconnect is *fast*.
And it runs up to two full US3/US3cu's (600MHz_NonCu >
750MHz_Noncu_x6990a > 900MHZ_NonCu_x7000a > 900MHz_Cu_x7009a >
1015MHz_cu_x7064a > 1050MHz_cu_x7017a > 1200MHz_cu_x7310a.
NonCu parts can be speed-mixed. Speed mixing of Cu parts is "not
surrorted", but should also work technically. Only mixing Cu and NonCu
parts will definitely not work.

Some people claim, above modules were mysteriously "no real US3/US3cu
CPU's", but whatever exotic limited cut-down versions (closer to the
low-end USIIIi, rather than USIII), but that's nonsense: Those modules
do have 100% fully capable 1368 pin flip-chip ceramic Land Grid Array
(LGA) chips inside, just as on the photo at
http://www.sun.com/processors/UltraSPARC-III/index.xml, so even USIV
would fit the connector physically (wouldn't work, of course).
Anyone, look below the heat-sink, if you don't believe this :-)

So *please* don't call a sb1k an "old system".
Flash to the latest OBP (4.16.4 January 2005), ebay two x7310a, and your
system will clearly outperform any red sb1500 or even red sb2500
(according to the official spec results from back then).
Post by Paul Duncan
Okay, well I've seen some used ones on eBay, and a new 146GB (very strange size) Seagate for 180 quid, which does seem rather expensive for a drive of that size, but I might get one anyway.
Yes, the Seagate 146GB FCAL drives are known to work in
sb1k/sb2k/N20/sf280r.
But one has to be careful with FCAL's interoperability/compatibility:
While any scsi disk will work with whatever scsi controller (if
required, connected by means of an an adaptor), FCAL reqires the disk's
firmware to be compatible with the FCAL host controller.
The sb1k uses a qlogic chip (have to check for exact model).
So you can use whatever hdd that works with that exact qlogic chip, but
nothing else (see hdd producer's detailed developer-datasheets)
This hasn't actually much to do with format or Joerg's sformat (that
question would exclusively come afterwards, that is, IF the given disk
does work with the qlogic chip, and then just CHS autodetection wouldn't
work with a given Nevada build (it changes from time to time).
There are also 300GB FCAL drives now, and I have heard somebody claiming
of being run such an exclusive part in a sb1k, but I did't verify that
myself.
Why?
Because I don't recommend you to spend much money for a FCAL disk,
except for 24x7x365 industrial strength server usage.
But for personal use it's just not worth that money.

+-+-+-+-+-+-+

In a sb1k/sb2k you have at least the following alternatives:

### Bootable disks, connected via OF-aware ... ###
* onboard FCAL
* PCI-SCSI controller card
* PCI SAS/SATA card

### Disks connected via nonbootable controllers: ###
(Nonbootable, because they lack their FCode drivers, respectively. Those
either have to be incorporated ionto the sb1k's OBP ieee1275 firmware
[check this under {ok / <path_to> builtin-drivers}], or the pci card
would have to have them onboard on an "OF" prom chip)
*cmd/sil 649 PCI UATA100 IDE card (disk size limit 120GB, not recommended)
*sil680 PCI UATA133 IDE card (disk size limit 120GB, not recommended)
* ieee1394 FireWire 400 PCI card (check for compatibility)
* any standards compliant USB2.0 card with a NEC chip (important) should
work.
Prices start at $5,-.

+-+-+-+-+-+-+

BTW, support for FireWire disks had worked well in early Solaris 10
builds (e.g. FCS/GA_03/05).
But on Nevada it got a bit uneasy temporarily.
Early builds (circa until snv24) would always panic due to dereferencing
a NULL pointer, as soon as the IEEE1394 disk would have been connected.
That's fixed.
It now does work again, but you now have to enter C/H/S manually. On
Solaris10 the autodetection of several external drives had worked for
me. Whereas on Nevada I was required to define a disk type by myself.

sformat is not required for that. Start format with the "-e" option.
The rmformat utility, which normally should be used, has never done
anything useful for me.
Start format -->> enter CHS -->> label -->> newfs.
Works ok (all previously stored data will be inaccessible, or zeroed,
respectively).
Take a new disk.

I use two 500GB Seagate IDE disks in external enclosures, one via USB2.0
($10,- NEC controller), another via FireWire.
Important: Disable volume management, at least for your hdd's.
Add enties to /etc/vfstab.
Post by Paul Duncan
Okay, but am I right in thinking the system only has USB1.1?
Absolutely correct.
Even the sb1500 needed a pre-installed pci card for this (While I never
wanted one of those lightweight boxes, so I didn't check. But the
datasheet suggests this.).
A cheap pci add-on board (NEC) is needed, if you want USB2.0 on your
sb1k/sb2k.
Don't put a 33MHz card into the 66MHz slot.
It would slow down performance, plus some 33MHz boards are known to die
prematurely, in that slot.
Post by Paul Duncan
Well, I do have one 400GB external firewire - currently in use as a backup drive for a Linux server, so once I manage to shift the data onto something else, I guess I could use that.
I give you my word on that.
Post by Paul Duncan
I wonder if its possible to use a PCI sata card in there...
That's certainly THE perfect solution, because it's internal (or
external, if desired), plus it's faster, plus the disks are the cheapest
(cheaper than IDE nowadays), but - probably most importantly - you can
boot off them.

Here are a few of my personal bookmarks:

sata sparc solaris - Google-Suche
<http://www.google.de/search?q=sata+sparc+solaris&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a>sata
sparc solaris pci driver - Google-Suche
<http://www.google.de/search?hl=de&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&hs=cr8&q=sata+sparc+solaris+pci+driver&btnG=Suche&meta=>[driver-discuss]
SATA/SPARC again: Ultra 25
<http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/driver-discuss/2006-November/003669.html>[driver-discuss]
SATA/SPARC again: Ultra 25
<http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/driver-discuss/2006-November/003669.html>[driver-discuss]
SATA/SPARC again: Ultra 25
<http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/driver-discuss/2006-November/003670.html>OpenSolaris
Forums: Sparc SATA support and booting ...
<http://www.opensolaris.org/jive/thread.jspa?messageID=128785>unixzone
dot dk » SATA on SPARC Solaris
<http://www.unixzone.dk/unix/20060218/sata-on-sparc-solaris/>"LSI Logic
3041X-R " - Google-Suche
<http://www.google.de/search?q=%22LSI+Logic+3041X-R+%22&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a>LSISAS3041X-R
: Basic Connectivity Line : SAS HBAs : Host Bus Adapters : Products :
Storage : LSI
<http://www.lsi.com/storage_home/products_home/host_bus_adapters/sas_hbas/lsisas3041xr/index.html>http://www.lsi.com/files/support/ssp/fusionmpt/Sparc/solinst_SPARC.txteBay:
LSI Logic 3041X-R
<http://search-desc.ebay.de/search/search.dll?sofocus=bs&sbrftog=1&from=R10&_trksid=m37&satitle=LSI+Logic+3041X-R&sacat=-1%26catref%3DC6&fts=2&sargn=-1%26saslc%3D3&sadis=200&fpos=Postleitza&sabfmts=1&saobfmts=insif&ga10244=10425&ftrt=1&ftrv=1&saprclo=&saprchi=&fsop=1&fsoo=1>LSI
Logic 3041X-R preis - Google Search
<http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=LSI+Logic+3041X-R+preis&btnG=Search>"3041X-R
" price - Google-Suche
<http://www.google.de/search?hl=de&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&q=%223041X-R+%22+price&btnG=Suche&meta=>unixzone
dot dk » SATA on SPARC Solaris
<http://www.unixzone.dk/unix/20060218/sata-on-sparc-solaris/>LSI3080X -
Google-Suche
<http://www.google.de/search?q=LSI3080X&btnG=Suche&hl=de&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&hs=wbo>SPARC
and SAS
<http://forum.java.sun.com/thread.jspa?threadID=5138689&tstart=150>SPARC
and SAS
<http://forum.java.sun.com/thread.jspa?threadID=5138689&tstart=150>LSI
3080X - Google-Suche
<http://www.google.de/search?q=LSI+3080X&btnG=Suche&hl=de&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial>Old
sparc & SATA drives <http://forum.java.sun.com/thread.jspa?threadID=5193183>

The LSI3041X-R with OpenFirmware onboard (bootable!) might be your best bet.
Prices are down to below $200,- USD.

Much success,
rgds.,
%martin%


_______________________________________________
opensolaris-discuss
Martin Bochnig
2007-08-10 15:16:01 UTC
Permalink
Addition: When you have two IEEE1394 hdd enclosures connected (both of
sb1k/sb2k's IEEE1394a ports busy), then you get data loss as soon as you
try to access both disks at once (one disk would suddenly "disappear"
without having been sync'ed/unmounted)!!
I.e. when copying data from one FireWire connected disks to the second.
At first I thought my Blade 2000 might be defective, but exactly the
same behavior can be reproduced on any other SB2000.

Sorry, I should have invested more time and filed a bug against the
relevant drivers (anyone: Please look into this.)
But I purchased a NEC USB2.0 controller (which has 4 external ports)
instead.
And it works fine.
USB2.0 is "slow"???
It is actually quite usable.


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